[EGW editor's original preface:  One of our readers in Virginia sent in the following question: “Did Lot sin when he got drunk, and had sex with his daughters?  Did God view that situation as a sin, or was it ok?  Can fathers have sex with their daughters, and it not be called sin?”  This reader also asked that the answer have Scripture texts.  With any question concerning what we read in the Bible, we must always strive to apply good hermeneutics and to let the Bible interpret itself.
     (For more tips on good Bible-reading skills, click the subjects Hermeneutics and Bible study)]

     [EGW editor's August 2014 preface… Ten years ago when I had first received this question I was inclined to ignore it due to the sensitive nature of the topic and because the common-sense answer seemed obvioius. However, as the apostle Paul reminds us, “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17)  Keeping this in mind, then and now, I considered that any honest question from any person seeking to understand and do what’s right deserves an honest answer based upon Scripture.  However it was recently pointed out to me a couple of difficulties with the article’s presentation. Some people, hindered by the indepth pace of the article, were mis-anticipating what encouragement I was trying to offer the reader.  Also, the alphabetical listing in the Q&A menu placed this article first in position from which some people mistakenly assumed I thought the article to be first in importance.  “To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.  They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.” (Titus 1:15-16)  To address these difficulties I have added a brief summary to begin the article followed by the indepth study and have also repositioned the article in the Q&A menu.]
     [EGW editor's June 2015 preface… In further effort to avoid mis-perceptions, I have now changed the name of this article.]

The short answer to our reader’s question and why:  Yes, he did.  As a sin.  No, it is still sin.
     •  The act is illegal in America under civil laws & customs that are within the scope of God’s instructions, therefore the act violates God’s law.  (Romans 13:1-10)
          a.  related too close together for a legal marriage
          b.  depending upon the age of the girl, statutory rape laws and child-molestation laws may apply
          c.  socially unacceptable practice, even in light of all the sexual sins permitted in modern society
     •  More importantly, it occurs outside of a God-approved marriage… and therefore is a form of fornication or adultery which are sexual sins forbidden by God.  (Matthew 19:3-9; Mark 10:2-12; 1 Corinthians 7:39; Hebrews 13:4)
     •  A related example in New Testament is this:  apostle Paul instructs the Corinthian church to disfellowship a man having sexual relations with his father’s wife, i.e. either the man’s mother or step-mother (1 Corinthians 5:1-12);  after the man repents and stops this, Paul instructs the church to forgive this man (2 Corinthians 2:1-11).
          — please note that in this instance, whether the man’s father is alive or dead seems to have no bearing on the issue

     Sometimes family members or close friends we love very much sin terribly and do things we know to be immoral and illegal and inexcusable.  When that happens, we might feel motivated to find some way to justify their actions … to prove them right above all else … so there’s nothing for them to repent from and nothing for us to forgive.  Or, maybe we feel that somehow we are to blame for their choice to do wrong.  Or, we might feel tempted to participate in their sin … perhaps either to enjoy it for ourselves or else to gain some benefit, even if at their expense.  However, as Christians we must seek to satisfy God’s standard first.
     In this case, faithful Christians will shun for themselves and discourage in others sexual relations between father-daughter and mother-son.  Faithful Christians will encourage those participating in such relations to repent and to stop and to seek forgiveness from God.  Faithful Christians will learn to forgive those who once practiced this sin, but have since repented, stopped doing it, and now strive to live faithful to God.
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The indepth answer:

     In Genesis chapter 18, God tells Abraham that He is about to destroy the wicked cities in the plains area of Sodom and Gomorrah.  Abraham’s nephew Lot and his family live in Sodom.  After some negotiation on Sodom’s behalf, Abraham persuades God to spare the city if it has at least 10 righteous people.  However, it does not even have that many, and in chapter 19, two angels arrive at evening to Sodom to destroy it.
     Lot, sitting in the city gate, offers lodging for the night to the angels, thinking them to be traveling strangers and they accept Lot’s hospitality.  After a troubling encounter with the townspeople, the two angels warn Lot to take his wife, his two virgin daughters, and their betrothed husbands and to flee the city. The son-in-laws refuse to leave, thinking Lot is joking with them.  At dawn the angels take Lot and the three women by the hand and lead them out of the city.
     Lot is instructed to flee to the mountains for safety, but pleads to be allowed instead to flee to the small neighboring city of Zoar.  The angels permit this although encouraging him to hurry.  After Lot enters Zoar, God destroys Sodom, Gomorrah, and the other cities of the surrounding plain sparing only Zoar.  Lot’s wife is killed when she disobeys the angels’ command to not look back toward Sodom.
     After the destruction, Lot is afraid to stay in Zoar and takes his two daughters to live in a cave up in the mountains.  We are also told that God was thinking of Abraham when He rescued Lot from the destruction.
     Verses 31-38 of chapter 19 present the subject of our reader’s questions:
     “Now the firstborn said to the younger,” we read in verses 31-33, “‘Our father is old, and there is no man on the earth to come in to us as is the custom of all the earth. Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve the lineage of our father.’  So they made their father drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father, and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose.”
     The daughters’ plot continues in verse 34.  “It happened on the next day that the firstborn said to the younger, ‘Indeed I lay with my father last night; let us make him drink wine tonight also, and you go in and lie with him, that we may preserve the lineage of our father.’  Then they made their father drink wine that night also. And the younger arose and lay with him, and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose.”
     The result we are told is “Thus both the daughters of Lot were with child by their father.  The firstborn bore a son and called his name Moab; he is the father of the Moabites to this day.  And the younger, she also bore a son and called his name Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the people of Ammon to this day.”

     “Did Lot sin when he got drunk, and had sex with his daughters?  Did God view that situation as a sin, or was it ok?  Can fathers have sex with their daughters, and it not be called sin?”     
     The simple answers before adding references and explanation is “yes,” “sin,” and “no.”  Before we list some Bible passages that have those answers, we need to mention a few relevants facts about Bible study, culture, sex, and objectivity so we have a foundational context for our discussion.  If you keep them in mind, I’ll be able to keep focused on the search for our answers.  (Lord willing, we will establish some of these facts more thoroughly in other articles, but not here.)
     
• Background facts to keep in mind:
     1.  As we study the Bible, we should let plain and clear passages explain the more confusing and complicated passages.  [See an example of this in What is the meaning of “baptized for the dead” in 1 Cor. 15:29?.]
     2.  The proper domain for sex, that God created and called “good” and “very good” in Genesis 1 & 2, is between a man and a woman in a husband-wife relationship; i.e. God created marriage.  Sex outside of this marriage relationship is wrong; this includes fornication & adultery.¹ (Hebrews 13:4)
     3.  In the beginning and after the Great Flood, humanity’s survival depended upon marriages between very close relatives, such as brother-sister, first cousins, aunt-nephew, uncle-niece, etc.  Later, through Moses, God gave commands forbidding sexual relations between very close relatives (Leviticus 20:10-12, 14, 19-21).  Throughout history some cultures allowed this kind of marriages despite these instructions, but our American culture and laws discourage such marriages  However… I have never heard of a culture, past or present, that openly permitted or encouraged marriages between parent and child.  Most, to my knowledge, overwhelmly abhorred and/or forbad sexual relations between parent-child — such relations and marriages are prohibited by law in the U.S.
     4.  During much of history covered by Genesis and into the Mosaic period, most cultures mentioned in the Bible put an extremely high priority on child-bearing and had customs and/or laws allowing surrogate parenting to overcome childlessness (Ruth 4:1-15).  There were also unstated and stated restrictions about whose nakedness one could uncover (e.g. Genesis 9:18-23; Leviticus 18).
     5.  God states things as they are — objective facts.  Not all behavior recorded in the Bible is sanctioned (i.e. approved) by God.
     6.  Generally speaking, people often make poor choices that have lasting harmful consequences.  Many of these choices are sinful choices because they defy God’s instructions for doing what’s right.  Sometimes a person’s poor choice sets himself or herself up to make more poor choices.  God’s allowing people the freedom to make poor or even sinful choices is very different from God’s permission or approval.  However, God is still in control and we have His promise that all things can work toward good for those who both love Him and agree to live on His terms (Romans 8:28).
     7.  As Christians we are obligated to God’s instructions as a higher standard than our culture or civil laws.  Wherever our cultural customs and civil laws are acceptable to God (i.e. permitted within His commands), He instructs to us to abide by them.  Wherever they are not, He expects us to refuse them.  Either way, He expects Christians to abide by His instructions.
     8.  Genetically speaking, human beings are much less pure today than in the times of the Creation and the Great Flood.  Children of very close relatives today usually have more physical and/or mental deformities than average which explains some American laws forbidding close-relative marriages and incest.

• What were some sins involved when Lot had sex with his daughters?
     1.  Inspite of wanting to be a godly and hospitable man, Lot added the sin of drunkness to his list of sins & weaknesses.
     While Lot’s choice to live in Sodom was a poor one, it is apparent that Lot still tried to be a godly man because he refused to participate in the sins of the townspeople and he sought to practice hospitality, even at the risk of his own life and the lives of his family.²  However, after Sodom’s destruction and the death of his wife, Lot took up drinking himself into drunken stupors such that he didn't know what went on around him.  Probably, in his alcoholic state, he believed he was having sex once again with his wife or thought he was only dreaming.  Certainly, he did not consider he was having sex with his daughters or he would have refused.  Otherwise why would his daughters have believed it necessary to get him drunk before he would lay with them?
     2.  Both Lot and his daughters deceived each other.
     On one hand, Lot’s daughters seem to have believed at the time the destruction was worldwide and that there were no other available men in the world by whom they could conceive children. Therefore,they sought to have children by their father, but they knew he wouldn't do this while in his right mind.  That is why they deceptively persuaded him to get drunk and then took unfair advantage of him.  Essentially they lied to him and they raped him.
    On the other hand, Lot knew the destruction was only local, was aware of the people in Zoar, and should have realized Abraham’s household would have also survived.  Perhaps Lot said nothing to correct his daughters’ mistaken idea or perhaps even persuaded them to believe it.  Whatever his reasoning or how good his motives, his deception of them contributed to their deception of him.
     3.  These sexual acts were outside of a God-approved marriage; i.e. neither of his daughters were his wife nor betrothed to be his wife.
     4.  Both Lot and his daughters acted out of the sin of despair because they failed to trust in God to help them.
     By definition, “to despair” means “to lose all hope or confidence.”  This would include any hope or confidence they had in God.  This is extremely sad in light of the tremendous evidence they had just experienced of God’s willingness to protect them.
     Lot did not hide in the mountains and drink himself stupid because he hoped and trusted in God’s providence.  He did so because he gave up on God and gave in to despair.
     Likewise, his daughters did not seek children through raping their drunken father because they trusted in God to provide them honorable means of having children.  They did so because they lacked trust in God and thought their lives depended solely upon themselves.
     These three committed the quiet crippling sin of despair which led them to commit other more dramatic sins.

• What are some sins involved with father-daughter sexual relations today?
     1.  The act is illegal in America under civil laws & customs that are within the scope of God’s instructions, and therefore violates God’s law.  (Romans 13:1-10)
          a.  related too close together for a legal marriage
          b.  depending upon the age of the girl, statutory rape laws and child-molestation laws may apply
          c.  socially unacceptable practice, even in light of all the sexual sins permitted in modern society
     2.  More importantly, it occurs outside of a God-approved marriage… and therefore is a form of fornication or adultery which are sexual sins forbidden by God.  (Matthew 19:3-9; Mark 10:2-12; 1 Corinthians 7:39; Hebrews 13:4)
     3.  “Necessity” of child-bearing and a lack of normally-approvable partners are not good excuses anymore.  (1 Corinthians 7:1-9,32-40)
     4.  The two people involved demonstrate a lack of loving concern for each other and for potential offspring.  (Ephesians 5:1-6:4)
     5.  A related example in New Testament is this:  apostle Paul instructs the Corinthian church to disfellowship a man having sexual relations with his father’s wife, i.e. either the man’s mother or step-mother (1 Corinthians 5:1-12);  after the man repents and stops this, Paul instructs the church to forgive this man (2 Corinthians 2:1-11).
          — please note that in this instance, whether the man’s father is alive or dead seems to have no bearing on the issue

     Sometimes family members or close friends we love very much sin terribly and do things we know to be immoral and illegal and inexcusable.  When that happens, we might feel motivated to find some way to justify their actions … to prove them right above all else … so there’s nothing for them to repent from and nothing for us to forgive.  Or, we might feel tempted to participate in their sin … perhaps to enjoy it for ourselves or to gain some benefit, even if at their expense.  However, as Christians we must seek to satisfy God’s standard first.
     In this case, faithful Christians will shun for themselves and discourage in others sexual relations between father-daughter and mother-son.  Faithful Christians will encourage those participating in such relations to repent and to stop and to seek forgiveness from God.  Faithful Christians will learn to forgive those who once practiced this sin, but have since repented, stopped doing it, and now strive to live faithful to God.

     ¹ EGW editor's note:  Throughout the Bible God gives numerous instructions about approved married life between man & woman and expresses several times His hatred for divorce.  Because he accepts only one excuse... fornication (Matthew 19:3-9; Mark 10:2-12) ... for divorce, and even then prefers to recommend reconciliation (1 Corinthians 7:10-12), He does not accept all post-divorce marriages as approvable.  While God is very expressive about how to live the married life, He is very silent about how to get married — in fact, I have yet to find in the Bible any instructions from God to people concerning their weddings to each other.  Therefore, it appears to me that God considers weddings as civil events with religious consequences. (back to place in article)
     ² EGW editor's note:   See the apostle Peter’s comments in 2 Peter 2:4-11, esp. verses 6-9 about God rescuing about Lot because at the time He considered Lot as righteous. Of course, God's rescue of Lot took place before Lot’s sins of drunkenness, despair, and incest. Read Ezekiel chapter 18 and chapter 33 to learn more about God's character in handling situations of the righteous turning to wickedness and of the wicked turning to righteousness. (back to place in article)